i was watching "friends" the other night and it was the episode where chandler starts dating the girl, finds out she's got an artifical leg and is freaked out about it, gets over it and is ready to date her and then she finds out that he has a triple nipple and leaves him.
we've all seen the movies... girl meets guy, girl falls for guy incredibly quickly, guy confesses he's dying from some disease, girl stays with guy anyway and has the most amazing couple of weeks/months/whatever that makes it all worth while. or something else along those lines. love conquers all. a few minutes of love is worth a lifetime of pain. so on and so forth.
so in real life what makes someone an insensitive, selfish jerk? we're getting ready to go out the door again. there's a young guy i know who went on a couple dates with a girl, then life interupted. they kinda run in the same circles and he's found out from others that she's still a virgin. they've talked about it some and about going out on more dates and she's definately dropped the hints that she's more than interested. he, on the other hand, doesn't want to get into a serious relationship when he's months away from going out the door and will quite honestly tell you that while he doesn't have any immediate prospects wouldn't mind sex for the sake of sex before he leaves. but being the good guy that he is, he feels totally guilty. if they'd steadily gone out on dates and he liked her and it came up that she was still a virgin, he'd be okay with that and might've waited for her. but knowing what he knows now, and being where he is he really doesn't want to date her.
i've know a guy who refuses to date a girl if she's not taking anti depressants. says he can't deal with "typical female mood swings". there's a girl who has broken up with a guy when she found out he was bi-polar. one guy refuses to date anyone else who suffers from migraines. said he did that for years and it just drastically changed his life. he'd spend a week or more every month tending to his girlfriend and just doesn't want to go through that again. even though he knows that not everyone's migraines are that frequent or long lasting, he's just made the rule and so far is sticking to it. says he feels like he's regained all this lost freedom since they broke up. doesn't have to tiptoe around his own house, or live in the dark because the bright light hurt her head more. does that make him a jerk? or does he just want what he wants? and is that okay?
it's one thing when you've committed to being with someone through thick and thin and you're years into that relationship and life happens. yeah. you might be an ass for bailing on someone when life kicks them in the nuts. your husband of 20 years has a heart attack? might not be the best time to tell him you're leaving him. but you're in the first couple weeks and someone tells you they've been diagnosed with cancer and have a short life expectancy and you can't deal? are you shallow for leaving? or just honest? you feel their nubbin and it grosses you out? that okay? someone confesses to being a recovering drug/alcohol addict and you know for a fact that that's not a battle you want to help them fight...
are there any times you've passed on a relationship for something and you felt bad about it? would you look down your nose on someone for breaking up with someone for any of these reasons? look down on a friend for doing any of these things?
19 comments:
All breakups are subjective, Sean. Some of these reasons may be perfectly valid in the right context; sometimes, they may be shitty. These things you talk about seem a little superficial, but I'm always going to look at both sides of the issue. If migraine girl made him stay in and hold her hand for the week, rather than set her up comfortably and let him do his own thing, I can almost see it. But if he's just inconvenienced, well, maybe it's a different story.
And even sometimes when you stick with the bad finances, and multiple job changes (2-4 months, then something new), and soul-crushing neediness, you find you've just given everything you have to give, and there's nothing left. And you throw in the towel. Does that make you a martyr, or a sucker, or a jerk for not sticking it out?
(Oh, sorry, was that out loud?) ;)
Dating is simply a series of rejections until you're not dating anymore.
Whether the rejections are well grounded, or seemingly superficial, that's kinda the point. Otherwise we might as well go back to the whole arranged marriage thing and just suck it up and deal with the person we get assigned to when we're 3yrs old.
Marriage, on the other hand, is a whole different ball of wax. Married 20 years, he has a heart problem and she picks that week to tell him she's leaving? That sucks.
Personally, if in the beginning of a relationship I learn something that is one of my "red flags", I'm out the door. If one of those things cropped up five years into the relationship, it would be different.
For me, it's all about the level of commitment. If someone isn't willing to make the commitment for one reason or another, and is at least honest about it in the begining, I have a certain amount of respect for that. I expect that to some degree. That's kinda the point of dating.
I think those movie stories are exceptional because they are the exception. We like to think there are people and love strong enough to withstand circumstance - and they are, but they're not the rule.
I agree with Courtney, and I'd like to add it all depends on backstory, too. The husband who has a heart attack - maybe he's been an abuser, and he's finally weakened enough that she feels she can get away without repercussions.
When I was about 18, one of my friends was about to break up with a guy she'd been dating for over a year. Then his father killed his entire family - I wish I was making this up - like the day before she was going to dump him. Obviously, she stayed with him. She was all he had left. I think she made the right decision.
On the other hand, another friend fell in love with and married an addict even though she found out right away what he was. She would say she's glad she did it but it brought so much pain and misery along with joy.
Its not fair to expect people to be the heroes of their personal life - we only do what we can, at the time. And if you're truly selfish, you're the one that loses in the end.
Love is like a Seurat painting. Stand too close and all you see are little colorful dots. Step back and take in the whole canvas and, well, there's a beautiful breathtaking picture. The dots merely contribute to the overall presence. If you can't step back, you should step over to the next painting on the wall and try again.
Clink, clink - my two cents.
I'm a firm believer in that old adage... the one about how being nice matters.
That said, life is too short. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting what we want. But we don't have to be jerks about it either. If you are casually dating someone and it turns out they have an artificial foot... I'd ask myself if I liked their personality enough to look beyond the metal foot. I really think that people become more beautiful the longer you know them. I myself am hearing impaired and wear two hearing aids. I know that would gross out a lot of guys, but to my husband it was just one more thing he loved about me. If you don't want someone because of some defect you perceive, it's OK because there's someone else out there that will think they are the most amazing thing under the sun. I don't think anyone should "settle" but they don't have to be jackasses or cruel about it either.
I have a feeling that this is going to be a long comment.
First of all, I want you to pass along a message to your friend who won't date a woman who is not on anti-depressants because he doesn't want to deal with female stuff. Let him know that birth control pills also control erratic feminine mood swings...believe me, I'm a different person when my hormones are not artificially regulated. That being said...I would NOT date a man who needs anti-depressants.
As for some of the other issues you mentioned...I would not date a man who is a virgin, is bipolar, suffers from migraines, or is recovering from a drug/alcohol problem. I don't need or want the drama that goes along with that stuff.
I also wouldn't date a guy who:
1. is smarter than me
2. makes less money than me
3. works around sick and contagious people.
4. comes home smelling like cow shit (or any other animal shit), furnace oil, gasoline, booze, or cigarettes.
5. drives too fast
6. drives a motorcycle
7. is married, or was recently divorced or separated.
8. is a celebrity.
9. is a smoker.
10. drinks more than 3 times a year.
11. uses drugs.
12. gets a cold more than once every two years.
13. Is allergic to cats.
14. Is allergic to anything and can't "suck it up".
15. doesn't like cats.
16. has a non curable STD.
17. swears when not absolutely necessary.
18. Is illiterate.
19. Doesn't do at least 85% of what I tell him to do.
20. has a hairy back.
21. has a pot belly.
22. doesn't love Elmo
23. thinks I'm gonna cook him meat.
I could go on forever but I really need to make myself some lunch. Perhaps I'll continue this in a facebook note.
Oops, I can't believe I forgot the most important ones of all. I would not date a man who:
24. has children under the age of 12 or wants to have more.
25. doesn't have children of his own and wants some.
Those two are absolutely non-negotiable.
Many of the things on my list are there because I've experience being with guys like that and do not have the stomach to venture back there. It's just not worth it to me to be annoyed or worried about stuff all the time. I'd rather be alone than endure that stuff. I don't think I'm a bad person.
We all have to mind our own business.
But I must add one thing. A million failed courtships aint as bad as one failed marriage.
Very thought-provoking post.
I have bowed out of relationships for seemingly frivolous reasons, but essentially I'm following my gut instinct.
One hilarious guy once casually mentioned "I can have some pretty dark moods." I laughed it off, thinking "you're so cute and funny and happy, you're just being silly."
Dark was an understatement; the very site of him walking down the street still makes me feel like I have an anvil on my chest.
I've since bolted over most statements of potential depression or anger. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt has never worked out for me. Never.
To each their own...and mine is not to judge.
Honest is ugly. It is rarely what th other person wants. When we look at ourselves, we are not always what we think we should be. I think it's hard to tell what makes you a "bad person" and what just makes you an honest person. A deep question you ask...
if they say disorientate or salivitate or coversate, i am out the door because, well, that's just plain unattractive.
but usually when i pick on a guy for saying disorientate or salivitate or conversate, it's usually because there is a bigger flaw that i either don't want to admit to or because i have a bad feeling about the guy that i can't put my finger on.
Okay, I'll be shallow.
I won't date a guy who is significantly overweight. A few extra pounds, no problem, but more than that? No thank you. I won't date a guy who wants kids of his own (had my tubes tied a few years ago and not going back). I won't date a guy who drinks too much or uses drugs (nuff said on that subject).
we all have our non-negotiables.
This will take some thought...and a separate post!
oh the quanry, umm basically I won't date any guy who has nicer hair than me...hense the bald guy (that's shaved not balding) in my life right now, can't be competing for the hair products while getting ready for a night on the town...but more importantly he can't have more angst than I do..I mean I have to provide the drama in this relationsip lol
I just had to say some thing. Your friend with the virgin should leave her alone unless marriage is in the offing. Yes I am old fashioned but she can only give it once. He is showing real responsibility by not giving her the hope of a relationship when he is going to be coming over here soon and may not return in the same condition. Something may be missing upon return. So that is my two cents worth.
A Real Man
Sean-
In our era, with our customized Ipods and pink phones and personalized stuff- we think we can find other humans to perfectly suit us as well- and it just doesn't work that way.
Yes- we should have "ideals" in mind when looking for a life partner- and people with destructive behaviors should be avoided...but many things are so superficial.
Here's the deal- a person of strength and character is created through a series of trials and hardships, they do not come that way by default. (these include serious illness, having decent kids, a military career, a good work ethic, history of taking personal responsibility- etc)
If a person wants a substantial relationship- they will go with a person of character.
If they want fluff- then they resort to sorting out people according to looks, or wealth, weight, or gym memberships.
At the end of the day what really matters? That you have a strong healthy relationship with a good person who is a migrane sufferer (Tim has them), or a good looking chick with a hot car and no idea what goes on in that head of hers?
One takes you gracefully into old age. The other will not last.
Maturity is one of the most underated ideals in a relationship...it's the thing "under" the skin- it's rare, and it's the thing that will endure.
Loved this post- and I know I didn't say anything here that you don't already know... :)
Jumping in here...Having been tossed back out into life after 20 years of joyful love with a man Amy wouldn't marry (was married, got divorced, smoker, biker,drove fast sometimes, mechanic, smelled of oil and grease, had kids under 12, drank more than three times a year, maybe six, pot belly, overweight and a hair patch on his back) I have to say it is all in the committment of the heart.
He changed jobs, had health issues sometimes, so did I, worse than his, the kids we had from other relationships made us crazy as they grew. There was never lots of anything - except the love and joy in being together we had every day.
We knew and loved each other, we were best friends and liked to do things together. We like to do things apart and then talk about it.
There were dry times and there were times we had to look out for the love, not just expect it to be there. We did that.
If I married for a body then the years would take that from me. If I married for the money that could be taken, too. If I married for the security one tornado can wipe it out.
He has been gone on ahead for almost two years, I have never lost his love.
Marry when the hearts are right and blow off all the rest. Then treasure what you have together above anything or anyone on earth.
I don't want drama in my life, I don't like jail or cops. I try to avoid those things and would hope to find that in a partner.
The rest is all up in the air because what I seek above all is someone who enjoys being with me that I enjoy right back.
Peace, respect, trust, love and joy in the day are worth all the rest to me. What he looks like and does changes, his love toward me is all I expect to keep.
I don't look down on anyone, I am learning to witness, not to judge. I just think sometimes we miss the canoe of love waiting for the boat of everything it is not.
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